JRE 1327 · July 31, 2019

Mike Baker

militaryintelligencepoliticssecuritycrime

Who is Mike Baker?

Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer. Currently he is the president of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm.

Topics and Timestamps

01Mike Baker discusses his 20+ year career as a CIA covert operations officer and what that work actually entails
02The conversation covers how intelligence agencies recruit, vet, and train operatives for field work
03Baker explains the difference between what people see in spy movies versus the reality of espionage operations
04They discuss current geopolitical tensions, Russian intelligence operations, and threats to US security
05Baker shares insights into how misinformation and disinformation campaigns work in the modern era
06The episode touches on private intelligence and security work through his firm Diligence LLC
▶Mike Baker introduces his background as a CIA covert operations officer0:00:30
▶Discussion of CIA recruitment process and what they look for in operatives0:08:45
▶Baker explains how real spy work differs dramatically from Hollywood portrayals0:15:20
▶Conversation about Russian intelligence operations and disinformation tactics0:35:10
▶Baker discusses his transition to private intelligence work with Diligence LLC0:52:30

The Show

In JRE 1327, Joe brings on Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer turned private intelligence expert, and the conversation quickly establishes that real spy work is nothing like what you see in movies. Baker spent over two decades in the field conducting operations across the globe, and he's remarkably candid about what that actually means. The recruitment process isn't about dramatic reveals or secret handshakes, it's methodical and thorough. The CIA isn't looking for adrenaline junkies, they're looking for people who can stay calm under pressure, think critically, and handle the psychological toll of operating in hostile territory.

One of the most interesting parts of the discussion is how Baker breaks down the difference between intelligence gathering, counterintelligence, and covert action. Most people lump all of that together, but they're completely different skill sets and operational priorities. He explains that a lot of what CIA officers do is boring as hell, repetitive, and involves tremendous amounts of paperwork and bureaucracy. The glamorous stuff you see in James Bond movies represents maybe 5 percent of actual field work.

The guys get into geopolitical stuff pretty heavily, particularly around Russian intelligence operations and their sophisticated approach to disinformation. Baker makes the point that the Russians aren't trying to get you to believe one specific thing, they're just trying to create chaos and make people distrust institutions. It's a strategy that plays out differently in democracies versus authoritarian states because the stakes are so different. In America, they want to amplify divisions. In their own countries, they're focused on maintaining control.

Baker also discusses how private intelligence and security firms like Diligence operate differently than government agencies. They have more flexibility, can move faster, and aren't bound by the same legal constraints, but they also lack the resources and reach of the CIA. It's a different game with different rules. He's pretty clear that good intelligence work, whether government or private, requires patience, attention to detail, and the ability to think like your adversary.

The conversation touches on some of the psychological aspects of being a covert operative, the compartmentalization required to keep operations secret from even your family, and how you transition back to normal life after decades of that kind of work. It's heavy stuff that doesn't get discussed much in mainstream media.

Best Quotes

“Real intelligence work is about 95 percent boring and 5 percent adrenaline. Most of the time you're sitting in an office doing paperwork.”

— Mike Baker