JRE 1386 · November 16, 2019

Matt Taibbi

politicsmediabusinesspsychology

Who is Matt Taibbi?

Matt Taibbi is a journalist and author. He has reported on politics, media, finance, and sports, and has authored several books including his latest "Hate, Inc.: Why Today's Media Makes Us Despise One Another" is available now & look for his podcast "Useful Idiots" is available at RollingStone.com

🌐 Website

Topics and Timestamps

01Matt Taibbi discusses his book 'Hate, Inc.' about how modern media is designed to make people despise one another
02The conversation covers how media outlets profit from outrage and polarization rather than actual journalism
03Taibbi explains the mechanics of how news networks create tribal divisions among their audiences
04Discussion about the decline of traditional journalism and rise of opinion-based cable news formats
05They explore how both left and right wing media use similar tactics to demonize the other side
06Taibbi and Joe discuss the role of social media algorithms in amplifying divisive content
▶Matt introduces the core thesis of 'Hate, Inc.'0:00:00
▶Discussion of how cable news networks profit from outrage and polarization0:05:00
▶Taibbi explains the mechanics of tribal media narratives0:15:00
▶Conversation about how social media algorithms amplify divisive content0:35:00
▶Matt discusses solutions and how people can combat media manipulation0:55:00

The Show

Matt Taibbi sits down with Joe to break down one of the most important conversations about modern media. His book 'Hate, Inc.' explores something that's become painfully obvious to anyone paying attention: the news industry is fundamentally broken because it's designed to make you angry at the other side, not to inform you about what's actually happening.

The core argument is straightforward but damning. News networks, whether MSNBC or Fox News, aren't in the business of journalism anymore. They're in the business of selling outrage to their specific audience. MSNBC sells outrage to liberals about conservatives, Fox sells outrage to conservatives about liberals, and everyone makes money while the country gets more divided. It's not a conspiracy in the traditional sense. It's just capitalism applied to news. If fear and anger get ratings, then fear and anger is what you're going to get.

Taibbi walks through how this works in practice. News cycles used to be about finding truth. Now they're about finding narratives that fit your network's worldview. A story gets picked up not because it matters but because it plays well with your demographic. The people running these shows aren't stupid. They know exactly what they're doing. They're playing the game that makes them the most money.

What's particularly insidious is that both sides are doing the exact same thing. You can take a story from CNN and flip the perspective for Fox News, and you'll get completely different narratives about the same event. This isn't happening because one side discovered some truth the other missed. It's happening because each network has already decided what the truth is supposed to be.

Joe and Matt get into how social media turbocharges all of this. Algorithms don't care about truth or nuance. They care about engagement. A reasonable take that brings people together gets buried. A completely insane take that gets people furious gets amplified. So everyone is incentivized to become more extreme and more tribal.

The conversation touches on how this affects actual journalism and real reporters. Good journalists who care about the truth are swimming against the current. The incentive structure doesn't reward them. It rewards the people who are best at playing the game and getting attention.

Taibbi's overall point is that we can't fix this by trusting the media to police itself or by government regulation. The financial incentives are too strong. The only real solution is for people to become more aware of how they're being manipulated and to actively seek out better sources of information.

Best Quotes

“The news industry is not in the business of telling you the truth anymore, it's in the business of making you hate the other side”

— Matt Taibbi