JRE 1397 · December 10, 2019
S.C. Gwynne
Who is S.C. Gwynne?
S. C. Gwynne is an American nonfiction writer. He is the author of the prize-winning "Empire of the Summer Moon" and his latest book "Hymns of the Republic" is now available.
Topics and Timestamps
- 01S.C. Gwynne discusses his extensive research methodology for writing historical narratives about American frontier and Civil War era
- 02The conversation explores how Native American tribes like the Comanches were militarily superior and strategically sophisticated
- 03Gwynne explains the writing process behind his bestselling books Empire of the Summer Moon and Hymns of the Republic
- 04Discussion of how modern historians often misrepresent or overlook certain perspectives in American history
- 05The challenge of bringing historical figures and events to life through narrative storytelling rather than academic dry recitation
- 06Insights into how technology and warfare evolved during the 19th century and its impact on American expansion
- ▶Gwynne introduces his research philosophy and how he approaches writing historical narratives0:00:00
- ▶Discussion of the Comanches and how they're misrepresented in standard American historical accounts0:15:30
- ▶Gwynne explains his process for writing Empire of the Summer Moon and the years of research involved0:35:00
- ▶Deep dive into Civil War era politics and the writing of Hymns of the Republic0:55:00
- ▶Discussion of how modern historians can correct or expand on traditional narratives through primary sources1:15:00
The Show
Joe sits down with S.C. Gwynne, the acclaimed nonfiction writer behind Empire of the Summer Moon and his newest work Hymns of the Republic. This is a deep dive into American history done the way JRE does it best when you get a real expert who actually gives a shit about getting the story right.
Gwynne is the kind of historian who doesn't just read other people's work and call it research. He goes to the actual places where this stuff happened, talks to descendants, digs through primary sources, and pieces together narratives that mainstream history sometimes gets wrong or glosses over entirely. The conversation centers on how he approaches writing historical nonfiction that reads like a thriller even though it's all real.
One of the big themes is how Native Americans, particularly the Comanches, get reduced to one-dimensional antagonists in popular history when the reality is way more complex and frankly more impressive from a military and strategic standpoint. Gwynne doesn't shy away from the brutal realities of frontier warfare, but he also doesn't let the conventional narrative hide the sophisticated tactics and incredible warriors involved.
The discussion gets into the actual mechanics of research and writing. Gwynne talks about spending months or years in archives, following bloodlines, understanding the political and social context that makes historical events make sense. He's not interested in just listing facts. He wants to understand why people did what they did, what their world looked like, what pressures and incentives shaped their decisions.
Joe and Gwynne dig into how certain historical narratives get cemented in popular culture even when they're incomplete or wrong. It's a reminder that the way we teach history in schools often prioritizes certain perspectives while marginalizing others. Gwynne's work is about expanding that perspective and showing that American history is way more interesting and complicated than the simplified versions most people learn.
The Civil War era stuff in Hymns of the Republic gets attention too. This was a period where America was literally tearing itself apart, where the fundamental question of what the country actually was got decided through brutal warfare. Gwynne brings that period alive in a way that makes you understand not just what happened but why it mattered so deeply to the people living through it.
Best Quotes
“I go to the places where these things actually happened. You learn things you can't learn any other way.”
— S.C. Gwynne
From the JRE 1397 conversation with S.C. Gwynne.
“The Comanches weren't just raiders. They were incredibly sophisticated military strategists.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1397 conversation with S.C. Gwynne.
“History isn't what happened. History is what we remember and how we choose to remember it.”
— S.C. Gwynne
From the JRE 1397 conversation with S.C. Gwynne.
“You have to understand what people's world looked like to understand why they made the decisions they made.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1397 conversation with S.C. Gwynne.
“The Civil War was America asking itself what it actually was, and the answer came through blood.”
— S.C. Gwynne
From the JRE 1397 conversation with S.C. Gwynne.
Mentioned in This Episode
Books, supplements, gear, and other cool things that came up in conversation — not the podcast ads.
Empire of the Summer Moon
AmazonS.C. Gwynne's prize-winning nonfiction work exploring the history of the Comanches and American frontier expansion.
Hymns of the Republic
AmazonS.C. Gwynne's latest book examining the Civil War era and American history during the 19th century.
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.