JRE 1414 · January 18, 2020

Mike Baker

militarycrimetechnologypoliticsbusiness

Who is Mike Baker?

Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer. Currently he is the president of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm.

Topics and Timestamps

01Mike Baker discusses his career as a CIA covert operations officer and what that work actually entails versus Hollywood depictions
02The conversation covers modern intelligence gathering, cybersecurity threats, and how technology has changed espionage
03Baker explains the reality of undercover operations, asset management, and the psychological toll of intelligence work
04Discussion of geopolitical tensions, foreign adversaries, and current global security challenges
05Baker shares insights into how misinformation and disinformation campaigns work in the digital age
06The episode explores the intersection of private security firms and government intelligence operations
▶Mike Baker explains the reality of CIA covert operations versus movie depictions0:05:30
▶Discussion of how technology and cyber operations have transformed modern espionage0:18:45
▶Baker breaks down asset recruitment and the psychology of turning informants0:35:20
▶Conversation about disinformation campaigns and their impact on democracies0:52:10
▶Baker discusses vulnerabilities in critical infrastructure and cyber threats1:08:00

The Show

Joe brings on Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer turned president of Diligence LLC, to talk about the real world of intelligence work. This is the kind of conversation that makes JRE special because Baker actually lived this stuff instead of just theorizing about it.

One of the core themes is how different real intelligence work is from what you see in movies and TV. Baker breaks down what covert operations actually look like, the training involved, and the kinds of decisions operatives have to make in the field. He's candid about the moral complexity of the job and the reality that it's not nearly as glamorous as Hollywood makes it out to be. There's a lot of boring surveillance, waiting around, and paperwork mixed in with genuinely dangerous situations.

They dive deep into how technology and the internet have completely transformed intelligence gathering and espionage. Baker explains that traditional spying methods still exist, but now cyber operations and digital intelligence play huge roles. The vulnerability of critical infrastructure to cyber attacks comes up multiple times, and Baker doesn't sugarcoat how exposed we actually are to sophisticated actors whether they're foreign governments or organized crime groups.

The conversation touches on asset management, which is basically how intelligence agencies recruit and handle informants and sources. Baker explains the psychology of turning someone and keeping them motivated to work against their own country or organization. It's fascinating and dark at the same time.

They also discuss disinformation and how it's weaponized. Baker emphasizes that this isn't new, but the scale and speed at which false information spreads now is unprecedented. He talks about how hostile nations run sophisticated campaigns designed to sow discord and manipulate public opinion in the US and other democracies. The challenge for average people is that it's getting harder to tell what's real and what's deliberate manipulation.

Baker brings a no-BS attitude to the whole thing. He's not trying to make himself sound cooler than he is, and he's willing to admit what he doesn't know or what the intelligence community gets wrong. Joe respects that and they build a natural rapport where you're getting genuine insights instead of someone performing for the camera.

Best Quotes

“The job is nothing like you see in the movies. Most of it is incredibly boring, and when it's not boring, it's terrifying.”

— Mike Baker