JRE 1521 · August 6, 2020

Josh Dubin & Jason Flom

crimejusticesciencepsychologypolitics

Who is Josh Dubin & Jason Flom?

Josh Dubin is an Innocence Project Ambassador Advisor &

Topics and Timestamps

01Josh Dubin and Jason Flom discuss their work with the Innocence Project fighting wrongful convictions
02They explore how junk science like false hair analysis and bite mark evidence has put innocent people in prison
03The conversation covers systemic issues in the criminal justice system that allow wrongful convictions to persist
04Both hosts discuss their podcasts 'Wrongful Conviction: Junk Science' and 'Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom' and why this work matters
05They explain how tunnel vision by prosecutors and confirmation bias leads investigators to ignore exonerating evidence
06The episode highlights real cases where innocent people spent decades in prison before being exonerated through DNA evidence
▶Josh Dubin and Jason Flom introduce their work with the Innocence Project0:00:30
▶Discussion of how junk science like hair analysis has been used to convict innocent people0:15:00
▶Explanation of tunnel vision and confirmation bias in criminal investigations0:35:00
▶Real case examples of people exonerated after decades in prison0:55:00
▶Discussion of their podcasts and the importance of raising awareness about wrongful convictions1:20:00

The Show

Joe sits down with Josh Dubin and Jason Flom, two major figures in the fight against wrongful convictions in America. Both are deeply involved with the Innocence Project, an organization dedicated to exonerating innocent people through DNA evidence and exposing systemic failures in the criminal justice system. The conversation centers on how broken the system actually is and how easily innocent people can end up spending their lives in prison.

The guys dive into the concept of junk science that has been used as evidence in countless cases. Hair analysis, bite mark evidence, and other debunked forensic techniques have put innocent people away for years. Flom and Dubin explain that these techniques were presented as scientific fact in court, but have since been proven to be unreliable at best and completely fraudulent at worst. The scary part is how long these false techniques were used before anyone in the system questioned them.

They discuss tunnel vision in investigations, where police and prosecutors become so focused on one suspect that they ignore exonerating evidence or evidence pointing to someone else. This isn't necessarily malicious, though some cases definitely involve prosecutorial misconduct. Often it's just the human tendency to confirm what you already believe rather than objectively examine all the facts. Once someone is arrested, the whole machinery of the system grinds forward assuming guilt.

Both guests emphasize that DNA evidence is often the only thing that can overturn these convictions because it's objective and can't be argued with. But they also point out that many cases don't involve DNA, so innocent people remain locked up with no way to prove their innocence. The work of the Innocence Project and their podcasts is about raising awareness that this happens far more often than people realize.

They talk about the emotional toll on the exonerees, the families who lost years with their loved ones, and the difficulty of getting compensation or rebuilding a life after decades behind bars. It's a sobering conversation about institutional failure and the human cost of a system that prioritizes conviction over truth.