JRE 1616 · June 27, 2024
Jamie Metzl
Who is Jamie Metzl?
Jamie Metzl is a futurist, author, and founder of OneShared.World.
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Jamie Metzl discusses the future of biotechnology and genetic engineering and how it's reshaping human civilization
- 02The conversation covers concerns about gain-of-function research and biosecurity risks in the modern era
- 03Metzl explains OneShared.World and his vision for global cooperation on existential threats
- 04Discussion of how artificial intelligence and biotechnology are converging to create unprecedented challenges and opportunities
- 05The episode touches on geopolitical implications of biotech advancement and competitive pressures between nations
- 06Exploration of ethical frameworks needed for governing emerging technologies before they become uncontrollable
- ▶Jamie introduces OneShared.World and his mission for global cooperation0:05:30
- ▶Discussion of gain-of-function research and biosecurity concerns0:18:45
- ▶Explanation of how biotechnology is becoming more accessible and cheaper0:32:20
- ▶Jamie discusses the convergence of AI and biotech as an existential risk0:47:15
- ▶Conversation about international cooperation and overcoming tribalism on existential threats1:04:30
The Show
Joe sits down with Jamie Metzl, a futurist and author who's deeply concerned about where biotechnology is headed and how unprepared humanity is for the changes coming. Metzl isn't just another doomsayer though, he's actually trying to do something about it through OneShared.World, his platform for global cooperation on existential risks.
The core of the conversation revolves around how biotechnology is advancing at an insane pace, but our governance structures and international cooperation frameworks are stuck in the past. Metzl explains that genetic engineering tools are becoming cheaper and more accessible, which is amazing for curing diseases but terrifying when you consider what bad actors could do with the same technology. He's not fear-mongering about this either, he's just laying out the reality of where we are.
What's really interesting is how Metzl frames this problem. It's not just about one country trying to dominate through biotech, it's about the entire world being vulnerable to catastrophic risks that don't respect borders. A pandemic, whether natural or engineered, affects everyone. So the incentive structure should theoretically push nations toward cooperation, but tribalism and competitive pressures often override that rational thinking.
The conversation also touches on how artificial intelligence is amplifying these risks. When you combine AI's ability to design novel pathogens or organisms with the democratization of biotech tools, you get a situation that's genuinely unprecedented in human history. Metzl is pushing for what he calls a "shared world" perspective where we acknowledge that our fates are intertwined and start acting accordingly.
Throughout the episode, Joe and Jamie explore what kinds of frameworks and institutions we'd actually need to navigate this stuff responsibly. It's not about banning technology, because that's both impossible and undesirable. It's about being proactive instead of reactive, having conversations now before things go sideways, and building trust between nations on these issues.
Best Quotes
“We're living through a period where the tools that could be used to create pandemics are becoming more accessible and cheaper every single day”
— Jamie Metzl
From the JRE 1616 conversation with Jamie Metzl.
“The old paradigm is we compete with each other on everything. The new paradigm has to be we compete with each other on some things but we cooperate on existential risks”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1616 conversation with Jamie Metzl.
“If we don't start having these conversations now, we're going to be having them after something terrible happens”
— Jamie Metzl
From the JRE 1616 conversation with Jamie Metzl.
“Biotechnology is advancing exponentially but our governance is advancing linearly if at all”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1616 conversation with Jamie Metzl.
“We have to recognize that we share one world, one atmosphere, one biosphere - and start acting accordingly”
— Jamie Metzl
From the JRE 1616 conversation with Jamie Metzl.
Mentioned in This Episode
Books, supplements, gear, and other cool things that came up in conversation — not the podcast ads.
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
