JRE 1617 · June 27, 2024

Mike Baker

militaryintelligencepoliticshistorypsychology

Who is Mike Baker?

Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer. He is now the president and cofounder of Diligence LLC, a global intelligence and security firm. Mike is also the host of "Black Files Declassified" now available on Discovery+.

Topics and Timestamps

01Mike Baker discusses his 20+ years as a CIA covert operations officer and what that work actually entails versus Hollywood portrayals
02The conversation covers intelligence gathering methods, asset recruitment, and how modern espionage differs from Cold War era operations
03Baker explains the reality of working in hostile foreign countries and the psychological toll of undercover work
04Discussion of current geopolitical threats and how intelligence agencies assess global security risks
05Mike shares insights into his current work with Diligence LLC and private sector intelligence operations
06The episode touches on declassified operations and what the public doesn't understand about CIA tradecraft
▶Mike Baker introduction and CIA background0:00:00
▶Discussion of actual CIA operations versus Hollywood depictions0:08:45
▶Baker explains asset recruitment and tradecraft methods0:22:30
▶Conversation about the psychological toll of undercover work0:45:15
▶Mike discusses transition to private sector and Diligence LLC1:15:00

The Show

Joe brings on Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer turned private intelligence expert, for a deep dive into what intelligence work actually looks like. Baker spent over two decades in the field conducting operations most people only see in movies, and the reality is way more mundane and grueling than the spy thriller version.

Mike breaks down the difference between actual CIA work and what Hollywood sells us. There's a lot less jumping off buildings and a lot more patience, planning, and sitting around in foreign countries trying to turn assets or gather information. The tradecraft side of things involves recruiting sources, managing relationships with foreign intelligence contacts, and operating in countries where if you get caught, the consequences are genuinely bad.

One of the interesting threads throughout the conversation is how the job has evolved. During the Cold War, there was a clearer enemy and more structured operations. Modern espionage deals with decentralized threats, cyber operations, and figuring out who to trust when information moves at the speed of the internet. Baker explains how difficult it is to maintain operational security when everyone has smartphones and surveillance is everywhere.

The psychological aspect of undercover work gets real too. Living a double life, managing the stress of potential exposure, and dealing with the moral gray areas of intelligence work takes a toll. Baker discusses how officers compartmentalize and what happens when you come home after years abroad doing things most people shouldn't know about.

Mike also talks about his transition to the private sector with Diligence LLC, where corporate intelligence and security investigations have become a huge business. Companies need to know about threats, assess international risks, and understand complex geopolitical situations that could affect their operations. It's similar work to CIA operations but for commercial interests rather than national security.

The episode touches on declassified operations and current global threats, giving Joe and listeners a sense of how intelligence professionals assess what's happening in the world right now. Baker's perspective is informed by actual experience in the field, not just theory or what's in the news.