JRE 1671 · June 27, 2024
Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory
Who is Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory?
Dr. Pierre Kory is an ICU and lung specialist who is an expert on the use of the drug ivermectin to treat COVID-19. Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist, visiting fellow at Princeton, host of the DarkHorse podcast, and co-author (with his wife, Heather Heying) of the forthcoming "A Hunter-Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century."
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Dr. Pierre Kory discusses ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19 and his research on its efficacy
- 02Bret Weinstein and Pierre Kory explore how institutional resistance affected treatment protocols during the pandemic
- 03Discussion of the importance of early treatment and why certain therapies were deprioritized
- 04The conversation covers regulatory capture and how pharmaceutical interests may influence medical guidance
- 05Examination of the peer review process and scientific gatekeeping in modern medicine
- 06Debate about individual risk assessment versus one-size-fits-all public health policies
- ▶Dr. Kory introduces his ICU experience and clinical observations with COVID patients0:05:00
- ▶Discussion of ivermectin's proposed mechanisms and why early treatment matters0:25:00
- ▶Bret Weinstein explains institutional resistance and incentive structures in medicine0:45:00
- ▶Conversation about regulatory capture and pharmaceutical influence on guidelines1:15:00
- ▶Joe and guests discuss the broader problem of scientific institutions closing ranks instead of debating1:45:00
The Show
Joe brings together evolutionary biologist Bret Weinstein and ICU specialist Dr. Pierre Kory for a deep dive into pandemic treatment protocols, scientific institutions, and the ivermectin controversy that dominated early COVID discourse. The episode centers on why certain affordable, existing drugs weren't prioritized in treatment guidelines despite some doctors reporting positive results.
Dr. Kory brings credibility as an actual ICU physician who treated hundreds of COVID patients and studied ivermectin's mechanism of action. He and Weinstein explore the institutional barriers that prevented wider exploration of repurposed drugs. The conversation isn't presented as definitive proof of ivermectin's superiority but rather an examination of why these conversations were suppressed rather than openly debated.
Weinstein, known for his critical perspective on institutional biology, provides evolutionary and systemic context for how institutions sometimes fail to adapt when novel threats emerge. The trio discusses how financial incentives in pharmaceutical development, FDA approval processes, and the peer review system can create perverse outcomes where cheap existing treatments get ignored in favor of new expensive ones.
A major theme is the value of early treatment protocols versus waiting until patients are severely ill. Both guests argue that many treatable patients deteriorated because treatment was delayed, and that the lack of clinical debate about options during an emergency represented a failure of scientific discourse.
The episode also touches on how questioning becomes weaponized when institutions close ranks, turning legitimate scientific debate into conspiracy discourse by default. Joe and the guests explore how this damages public trust and the broader scientific enterprise, not just COVID policy.
Best Quotes
“When you have an emergency, you don't have time to wait for perfect data. You have to work with what you have.”
— Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory
From the JRE 1671 conversation with Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory.
“The institutional resistance wasn't based on evidence, it was based on institutional preservation.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1671 conversation with Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory.
“If you're not allowed to ask questions, you're not doing science anymore.”
— Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory
From the JRE 1671 conversation with Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory.
“The problem is that we've made it so that questioning the narrative is automatically conspiracy thinking.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1671 conversation with Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory.
“An ICU doctor who sees patients getting better with a treatment but can't talk about it openly has a serious problem.”
— Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory
From the JRE 1671 conversation with Bret Weinstein & Dr. Pierre Kory.
Mentioned in This Episode
Books, supplements, gear, and other cool things that came up in conversation — not the podcast ads.
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