JRE 1739 · June 27, 2024
Philip Goff
Who is Philip Goff?
Philip Goff is a philosopher and consciousness researcher at Durham University. His new book, "Galileo's Error: Foundations for a New Science of Consciousness," is available now.
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Philip Goff discusses how Galileo's scientific revolution accidentally removed consciousness and subjective experience from our understanding of the physical world
- 02The hard problem of consciousness remains unsolved because modern science is built on a framework that excludes first-person experience by design
- 03Panpsychism is explored as a potential solution where consciousness might be a fundamental feature of reality rather than something that emerges from unconscious matter
- 04The limitations of materialism and physicalism in explaining why we have subjective experiences at all
- 05How the split between objective science and subjective consciousness has created a false dichotomy that might be holding back real progress
- 06Discussion of why consciousness studies require a complete rethinking of our foundational assumptions about what reality actually is
- ▶Philip Goff introduces Galileo's Error and the consciousness problem0:02:15
- ▶Discussion of how Galileo removed subjective experience from the scientific worldview0:08:45
- ▶Goff explains panpsychism as a potential solution to the hard problem of consciousness0:22:30
- ▶Debate about whether consciousness could be fundamental to reality rather than emergent0:35:20
- ▶Conversation about implications for AI, animals, and what counts as conscious0:48:50
The Show
Joe sits down with Philip Goff, a philosopher at Durham University working on consciousness research, to dive into one of the deepest questions in science: why do we have subjective experiences at all? Goff's new book, Galileo's Error, traces how the scientific revolution accidentally created the consciousness problem.
The core argument is fascinating. When Galileo and the early scientists were building modern science, they made a strategic choice to focus on quantifiable, objective properties of the world. Colors, sounds, smells, tastes—all the stuff we actually experience—got classified as subjective and removed from the official picture of reality. That left us with a universe of pure mathematics and physical properties, which worked great for building technology but created a massive philosophical disaster. If consciousness and subjective experience aren't part of the physical world, where the hell are they? And how do they interact with brains, which supposedly are physical objects?
Goff explains that this framework leads to what philosophers call the hard problem of consciousness. We can explain behaviors, neural correlates, and reactions, but we can't explain why there's something it feels like to experience something. Why isn't all this stuff just happening in the dark with nobody home? Goff argues that the answer might require us to rethink what physical actually means.
The conversation explores panpsychism, the idea that consciousness or proto-consciousness might be a fundamental feature of reality, baked into matter itself, rather than something that magically emerges when brains get complicated enough. It sounds crazy at first, but Goff makes a logical case that it might actually be less crazy than the alternatives. If consciousness is completely non-physical, we have an interaction problem. If it emerges from purely unconscious matter, we still can't explain how that emergence works. Panpsychism at least takes consciousness seriously as something real and fundamental.
Joe pushes back on various points, exploring what this would mean for artificial intelligence, animals, and our basic understanding of existence. The discussion gets into how our materialist assumptions have become almost religious in their rigidity, and how good science might actually require us to take consciousness as a starting point rather than a problem to explain away.
Best Quotes
“We've inherited this view from Galileo where we think the physical world is just the quantifiable aspects, and everything else is subjective and unreal.”
— Philip Goff
From the JRE 1739 conversation with Philip Goff.
“The hard problem isn't about explaining behavior, it's about explaining why there's something it's like to have experiences at all.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1739 conversation with Philip Goff.
“Panpsychism says consciousness might be fundamental to reality, baked into the fabric of matter itself.”
— Philip Goff
From the JRE 1739 conversation with Philip Goff.
“We've made consciousness seem like an impossible problem by starting with the wrong assumptions about what physics even is.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1739 conversation with Philip Goff.
“The real scandal is that we built our entire scientific worldview on an assumption we never actually proved.”
— Philip Goff
From the JRE 1739 conversation with Philip Goff.
Mentioned in This Episode
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