JRE 1743 · June 27, 2024
Stephen Pinker
Who is Stephen Pinker?
Steven Pinker is the Harvard College Professor of Psychology at Harvard University. His newest book, "Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters," is available now.
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Stephen Pinker discusses his book 'Rationality' and why rational thinking seems increasingly scarce in modern society
- 02Explores the difference between individual rationality and collective rationality, and how both can fail in predictable ways
- 03Discusses how humans are susceptible to cognitive biases and motivated reasoning that prevents clear thinking
- 04Examines the role of social media and information ecosystems in amplifying irrational beliefs and tribal thinking
- 05Pinker argues that despite appearances, humanity has made tremendous progress through rational thinking and empirical methods
- 06Conversation touches on how education and intellectual humility are essential for improving rationality at scale
- ▶Pinker introduces the core thesis of 'Rationality' and defines what rational thinking actually means0:05:00
- ▶Discussion of cognitive biases and how they systematically lead humans astray, especially confirmation bias0:15:00
- ▶Pinker explains the difference between individual rationality and collective rationality failures0:28:00
- ▶They discuss social media's role in amplifying irrational beliefs and tribal thinking0:42:00
- ▶Pinker presents evidence that human progress has been driven by rationality and scientific thinking0:58:00
The Show
Joe brings on Steven Pinker, the Harvard cognitive scientist and author of the new book 'Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters.' Right off the bat, they get into why rationality seems to be failing us even though we live in an age of unprecedented access to information. Pinker breaks down the distinction between individual rationality, which most people think they have, and the actual systematic biases that plague human decision-making.
One of the core themes that emerges is how humans are spectacularly bad at certain kinds of thinking. We're prone to confirmation bias, where we seek out information that confirms what we already believe. We're susceptible to tribal reasoning where loyalty to our group overrides evidence. Pinker explains that this isn't a bug in human nature, it's a feature that evolved for social survival, but it's terrible for figuring out what's actually true about the world.
They dig into how modern technology, particularly social media algorithms, have weaponized these cognitive biases. The incentive structures of engagement-driven platforms reward outrage and sensationalism over nuance and accuracy. Pinker points out that this creates a vicious cycle where irrational content spreads faster than rational correction. Joe pushes back on some of this, questioning whether people are really as irrational as Pinker suggests, and they have a good back-and-forth about individual versus collective intelligence.
Pinker makes the case that despite what it feels like, humanity has actually made incredible progress through rational and scientific thinking. The evidence is overwhelming: longer lifespans, reduced poverty, decreased violence, better health outcomes. He argues that we tend to suffer from what he calls a 'progress blindness' where improvements in conditions feel normal so we don't notice them, but setbacks feel urgent and catastrophic.
The conversation also touches on education and intellectual humility. Pinker suggests that part of the rationality problem is that people aren't trained to think probabilistically or to understand statistics and scientific methodology. Understanding how we know what we know is increasingly important in a world drowning in information.
Throughout the episode, Joe and Pinker engage in the kind of substantive back-and-forth that makes JRE compelling. Joe isn't shy about disagreeing with Pinker's more optimistic take on human progress, and Pinker is gracious in defending his positions with examples and evidence. It's exactly the kind of conversation where two smart people with different perspectives hash things out in real time.
Best Quotes
“Rationality is not about being emotionless, it's about using evidence and logic to figure out what's true and what's best to do about it.”
— Stephen Pinker
From the JRE 1743 conversation with Stephen Pinker.
“We evolved to be tribal, to be loyal to our group, and that worked great for survival. But it's terrible for figuring out the truth.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1743 conversation with Stephen Pinker.
“Social media algorithms have essentially gamified our worst cognitive biases because engagement drives profit.”
— Stephen Pinker
From the JRE 1743 conversation with Stephen Pinker.
“Humans have made the most progress when we use rationality and the scientific method, not when we rely on intuition and belief.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1743 conversation with Stephen Pinker.
“Progress blindness means we don't notice improvements in living standards because they become our new normal, but we immediately notice setbacks.”
— Stephen Pinker
From the JRE 1743 conversation with Stephen Pinker.
Mentioned in This Episode
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