JRE 1862 · June 27, 2024
Mike Baker
Who is Mike Baker?
Mike Baker is a former CIA covert operations officer and current CEO of Portman Square Group, a global intelligence firm. He's also the host of "Black Files Declassified" on Discovery+ and the Science Channel. www.portmansquaregroup.com
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Mike Baker explains his transition from CIA covert operations to founding Portman Square Group, a global intelligence consulting firm
- 02Discussion of how intelligence gathering has evolved with technology and the challenges of modern espionage in the digital age
- 03Baker shares insights into declassified operations and what he can and cannot discuss about his classified work
- 04Exploration of how misinformation and disinformation campaigns operate at scale in modern geopolitics
- 05Baker discusses his work on Discovery+ and Science Channel's Black Files Declassified series and what goes into declassifying information
- 06Conversation about the role of private intelligence firms in filling gaps left by government agencies and corporate security needs
- ▶Baker explains his journey from CIA officer to private intelligence consultant and what changed about the business0:05:30
- ▶Discussion of how digital technology has fundamentally altered tradecraft and modern espionage methods0:22:15
- ▶Baker details how misinformation campaigns work and why they're so effective in shaping public opinion0:38:45
- ▶Explanation of the declassification process and how Black Files Declassified navigates classified information0:56:30
- ▶Baker breaks down the difference between government intelligence agencies and private firms like Portman Square Group1:14:20
The Show
Joe sits down with Mike Baker, a former CIA covert operations officer turned CEO of Portman Square Group, to dig into the world of modern intelligence work. Baker brings a wealth of experience from his time in the agency, but the conversation quickly becomes about how the intelligence game has fundamentally changed since his days in the field.
One of the core themes that emerges is how technology has completely upended traditional espionage. Baker explains that the methods that worked decades ago are largely obsolete now. Everything leaves a digital footprint, everything can be tracked, and the old tradecraft of moving through the world undetected is exponentially harder when surveillance is ubiquitous. Joe and Mike dig into how countries are adapting to this reality and how private intelligence firms like Portman Square Group are stepping in to provide services that governments either can't or won't handle.
Baker is refreshingly candid about what he can and cannot discuss. The classified stuff stays classified, but he's able to share enough context about how operations work, how assets are recruited, and how information is verified to give Joe and listeners a real sense of the complexity involved. It's not Hollywood spy stuff. It's methodical, it's boring a lot of the time, and it requires serious patience and tradecraft.
The conversation also touches on Baker's work with Black Files Declassified, which involves taking operations and events that have been cleared for public consumption and telling the real story behind them. This requires navigating what the government will allow to be disclosed versus what they want kept quiet, and Baker explains the actual process of getting permission to talk about declassified material.
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on misinformation and disinformation campaigns. Baker breaks down how these operate at scale, why they're so effective, and what makes them different from simple lying. The sophistication of modern information warfare means that nation states and actors with resources can shape narratives in ways that are nearly impossible to counter once they're embedded in the information ecosystem. This connects to some of Joe's ongoing concerns about media literacy and how people consume information.
Best Quotes
“The world has changed so dramatically that a lot of the old tradecraft, the old methods, they don't work anymore because everything leaves a digital footprint.”
— Mike Baker
From the JRE 1862 conversation with Mike Baker.
“People think intelligence work is exciting and fast paced, but a lot of it is incredibly boring and repetitive. It's about patience and methodical work.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1862 conversation with Mike Baker.
“Misinformation is different from disinformation. One is accidental, the other is deliberately crafted to shape narratives.”
— Mike Baker
From the JRE 1862 conversation with Mike Baker.
“The declassification process is bureaucratic, it's slow, but it's necessary because there's still real security concerns even with older operations.”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1862 conversation with Mike Baker.
“Private intelligence firms can move faster and be more flexible than government agencies, but we don't have the same resources or reach that the CIA does.”
— Mike Baker
From the JRE 1862 conversation with Mike Baker.
Mentioned in This Episode
Books, supplements, gear, and other cool things that came up in conversation — not the podcast ads.
Black Files Declassified
AmazonA television series on Discovery+ and Science Channel hosted by Mike Baker covering declassified intelligence operations and espionage stories.
Portman Square Group
AmazonA global intelligence and security consulting firm founded and led by Mike Baker providing corporate and government intelligence services.
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