JRE 1964 · June 27, 2024

Rick Doblin

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Who is Rick Doblin?

Rick Doblin, Ph.D., is the Founder in 1986 and President of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a nonprofit that wholly owns its pharmaceutical arm, MAPS Public Benefit Corporation (PBC), which has completed two highly successful Phase 3 studies of MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD. MAPS PBC stands at a crossroads between obtaining the additional resources it needs from philanthropy, ensuring public benefit is foremost, or becoming a publicly traded company. maps.org

Topics and Timestamps

01Rick Doblin founded MAPS in 1986 and has spent nearly 40 years getting MDMA-assisted therapy approved for PTSD treatment
02MAPS completed two successful Phase 3 clinical trials showing MDMA-assisted therapy significantly outperforms standard treatment for PTSD
03The FDA is likely to approve MDMA-assisted therapy as a prescription treatment, potentially within the next few years
04MAPS PBC faces a critical decision: remain nonprofit-focused, pursue more philanthropy, or go public to fund further research
05MDMA works therapeutically by reducing fear and increasing emotional openness, allowing people to process trauma safely
06Doblin discusses how psychedelic-assisted therapy could revolutionize mental health treatment and change psychiatry fundamentally
▶Rick explains the founding of MAPS and 40 years of fighting for MDMA legitimacy0:00:00
▶Discussion of how the two Phase 3 trials showed superior outcomes compared to standard PTSD treatment0:15:00
▶Rick breaks down the mechanism of how MDMA reduces fear and increases emotional openness for processing trauma0:35:00
▶Joe and Rick discuss the timeline for FDA approval and what that means for access to MDMA-assisted therapy0:55:00
▶The critical conversation about MAPS PBC going public versus staying nonprofit focused on public benefit1:20:00

The Show

Rick Doblin is on a mission that's been decades in the making. As the founder and president of MAPS, he's been fighting to legitimize MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD since 1986, and honestly, it's one of the most compelling examples of scientific persistence paying off. Joe and Rick dig into how MAPS completed two Phase 3 trials that blew away conventional treatment outcomes for PTSD, which is massive because PTSD has historically been resistant to existing medications and therapies.

The science here is straightforward but profound. MDMA doesn't just mask symptoms like SSRIs do. It actually reduces fear and increases emotional openness in a way that allows trauma survivors to process their experiences in a therapeutic setting without being overwhelmed by anxiety. Rick explains that this is why MDMA-assisted therapy works so much better than talk therapy alone or medication alone. The drug creates an optimal window where people can access trauma memories without the nervous system going into complete shutdown mode.

One of the most interesting parts of the conversation is how close we actually are to FDA approval. The Phase 3 trials were so successful that there's genuine momentum toward making MDMA-assisted therapy a legal prescription treatment. This isn't fringe stuff anymore. This is legitimate pharmaceutical development with rigorous clinical protocols. Joe seems genuinely impressed by how Doblin and MAPS have navigated this, especially given how hostile the government has been to psychedelics for decades.

But here's where it gets complicated. MAPS PBC is at a crossroads. They could stay true to their nonprofit mission and focus on public benefit, they could chase more philanthropic funding, or they could go public as a company. Each path has serious implications for drug access and pricing. Doblin's clear that if they go public, there's real risk that MDMA-assisted therapy becomes something only wealthy people can afford. That's a betrayal of the whole mission.

The bigger conversation here is about how psychedelics are going to fundamentally change psychiatry. We're not just talking about one therapy for one condition. We're talking about psilocybin for depression, LSD for existential anxiety, and other compounds in the pipeline. The old pharmaceutical model where you take a pill every day to manage symptoms is being disrupted by therapies where a few guided sessions can potentially create lasting change. It's a paradigm shift, and Doblin's been orchestrating it since before it seemed possible.

Best Quotes

“We've spent 40 years trying to get MDMA legally approved as a medicine because the science is so compelling”

— Rick Doblin