JRE 2174 · July 10, 2024
Annie Jacobsen
Who is Annie Jacobsen?
Annie Jacobsen is a Pulitzer Prize finalist, investigative journalist, and bestselling author. Her latest book, “Nuclear War: A Scenario,” is out now.
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Annie Jacobsen discusses her new book 'Nuclear War: A Scenario' which depicts a realistic nuclear exchange between the US and Russia
- 02The book explores what would actually happen in the first 24 hours of nuclear war, from decision-making to immediate devastation
- 03Jacobsen reveals how close the world has come to nuclear war multiple times due to miscalculation and false alarms
- 04The conversation covers the psychology of world leaders making split-second decisions that could end civilization
- 05Annie explains the difference between nuclear war scenarios in movies versus what science actually predicts would happen
- 06Discussion includes the current geopolitical tensions and how nuclear deterrence shapes global politics
- ▶Annie introduces her nuclear war scenario book and what inspired it0:00:00
- ▶Discussion of the 1983 Soviet false alarm and Stanislav Petrov's decision0:15:00
- ▶Breaking down the first 24 hours of nuclear war and decision-making timelines0:35:00
- ▶How close we've actually come to nuclear war throughout history0:55:00
- ▶The difference between nuclear war in movies versus scientific reality1:20:00
The Show
Joe sits down with Pulitzer Prize finalist Annie Jacobsen to dive deep into her latest book 'Nuclear War: A Scenario,' which is essentially a worst-case scenario breakdown of what would happen if nuclear war actually went down. This isn't some fear-mongering doomsday nonsense either. Jacobsen spent years researching declassified documents, interviewing former government officials, and studying the science of nuclear weapons to create a realistic hour-by-hour account of what the first 24 hours would look like.
The conversation gets into the terrifying reality that we've been incredibly close to nuclear war multiple times throughout history. We're not talking about movies or theoretical stuff. Jacobsen details actual historical moments where miscommunication, technical failures, or just plain human error nearly triggered a nuclear exchange. The 1983 Soviet false alarm incident where their system detected incoming US missiles that didn't actually exist is a perfect example. A Soviet officer named Stanislav Petrov had to make a judgment call in minutes that literally saved millions of lives.
What makes this discussion so compelling is that Jacobsen doesn't just talk about the bomb going off. She breaks down the decision-making process of world leaders in the situation room, the military protocols, the irreversible chain of events once the button gets pushed, and then the actual physical destruction and aftermath. We're talking about electromagnetic pulses wiping out infrastructure, the breakdown of society, starvation, disease. It gets real dark real quick.
Joe and Annie explore how different this reality is from what Hollywood shows us. Movies make nuclear war look like something you can survive with a bunker and some canned food. The actual science says otherwise. The scenarios in her book are based on what military strategists and nuclear scientists actually predict, not what makes for good cinema.
They also talk about how nuclear weapons have basically frozen geopolitical conflicts because nobody wants to be the one to start the chain reaction. It's this weird game of deterrence where having the weapons theoretically prevents their use, but the risk never goes away. One miscalculation, one crazy leader, one technical failure, and everything changes.
Best Quotes
“I spent years researching declassified documents to understand what would actually happen in a nuclear exchange”
— Annie Jacobsen
From the JRE 2174 conversation with Annie Jacobsen.
“We've come far closer to nuclear war than most people realize, and most of those times people don't even know about it”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 2174 conversation with Annie Jacobsen.
“The first decision maker only has minutes to decide whether to launch a nuclear counterstrike based on imperfect information”
— Annie Jacobsen
From the JRE 2174 conversation with Annie Jacobsen.
“Nuclear weapons have paradoxically kept the peace through mutual assured destruction, but that balance is incredibly fragile”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 2174 conversation with Annie Jacobsen.
“What happens in the first 24 hours of nuclear war is catastrophic in ways that go far beyond just the explosions”
— Annie Jacobsen
From the JRE 2174 conversation with Annie Jacobsen.
Mentioned in This Episode
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