JRE 1719 · June 27, 2024
Michael Shellenberger
Who is Michael Shellenberger?
Michael Shellenberger is a journalist and author. His latest book, "San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities," will be published on October 12, 2021.
Topics and Timestamps
- 01Michael Shellenberger discusses his book 'San Fransicko' and the progressive policies he believes have failed major US cities
- 02The conversation covers homelessness, drug addiction, and how well-intentioned policies have created unintended consequences in San Francisco
- 03Shellenberger explains the difference between helping people and enabling destructive behavior through overly permissive policies
- 04Discussion of how progressive cities have abandoned law enforcement and public safety measures that actually work
- 05The role of activist groups and nonprofits in shaping city policy in ways that benefit themselves rather than the communities they serve
- 06Examination of why some cities have successfully reduced homelessness while others have seen it explode despite massive spending
- ▶Shellenberger introduces his thesis on how progressive policies have failed San Francisco0:00:30
- ▶Discussion of how Houston has reduced homelessness more effectively than San Francisco0:12:45
- ▶Explanation of the perverse incentive structure that nonprofits have created around homelessness0:24:30
- ▶Shellenberger explains the difference between compassion and actually helping people0:35:15
- ▶Discussion of why decriminalization without treatment has made drug markets worse0:48:00
The Show
In JRE 1719, Joe sits down with journalist and author Michael Shellenberger to discuss his upcoming book 'San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities.' Shellenberger brings a well-researched perspective on how progressive policies, despite their good intentions, have actually made things worse in major American cities, particularly San Francisco.
The core argument Shellenberger makes is that progressive cities have adopted policies that sound compassionate but end up enabling the very problems they claim to solve. By decriminalizing drug use, eliminating enforcement of laws against public camping and defecation, and providing services with no requirement for sobriety or behavioral change, cities like San Francisco have created open-air drug markets and made streets increasingly uninhabitable. Shellenberger points out that this isn't helping people with addiction and homelessness, it's actually trapping them in cycles of addiction and abuse.
One of the key insights from the conversation is the distinction between compassion and actually helping people. Shellenberger argues that cities like Houston have had more success reducing homelessness than San Francisco despite spending less money, because they actually enforce laws, require people to get sober and get help, and focus on housing people rather than just providing services on the street. The difference is accountability and structure, not the size of the budget.
The episode also touches on how activist groups and nonprofits have become part of the problem, pushing policies that benefit their organizations and funding streams rather than the people they claim to help. There's a perverse incentive structure where more homelessness and addiction means more funding and jobs for nonprofits, so there's little motivation to actually solve the problem.
Shellenberger explains that he's not anti-progressive but is concerned with what he calls 'California Progressivism,' which has drifted into ideology disconnected from results. He advocates for evidence-based policy that actually works, even if it means requiring tough love and enforcement. The conversation makes clear that the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and that cities need to be honest about what policies actually help vulnerable people versus what makes activists and politicians feel good.
Best Quotes
“The goal should be helping people get off drugs and into housing, not just accepting that they're going to be on the street using drugs forever”
— Michael Shellenberger
From the JRE 1719 conversation with Michael Shellenberger.
“Houston spends less money than San Francisco but has actually reduced homelessness because they enforce laws and require people to get sober”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1719 conversation with Michael Shellenberger.
“We've created a system where more homelessness means more funding for nonprofits, so there's no incentive to actually solve the problem”
— Michael Shellenberger
From the JRE 1719 conversation with Michael Shellenberger.
“Compassion is not the same as enabling destructive behavior”
— Joe Rogan
From the JRE 1719 conversation with Michael Shellenberger.
“Evidence matters more than ideology when it comes to actually helping vulnerable people”
— Michael Shellenberger
From the JRE 1719 conversation with Michael Shellenberger.
Mentioned in This Episode
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